Subiect: Siguranta inainte de toate (ABS,ASR,MSR.ESP,EBV,MBA)

[A V A T A R]

Now, all my examples have been pretty extreme. The EDL doesn't actually stop anything. It simply slows it down until the speed difference is equalized, and it does this by pulsing the ABS channels maybe a dozen times a second. It switches off when the speed differential is low enough.

Also note, it does not try to prevent wheelspin! If both sides lose traction at the same time and spin at the same speed then EDL has no idea anything is wrong. A more advanced system measures the difference between the speeds of all 4 wheels during acceleration and assumes that anything spinning faster than the slowest rotating wheel is slipping (often referred to as ASL today). A cheap system will apply the brakes. An expensive system will reduce the throttle until the problem goes away.  BMWs and new VWs use this method to prevent wheelspin.
The problem with the way EDL works is that it's pretty harsh. The pulsing of the ABS isn't progressive. If the ABS is on, it applies full braking power followed by zero braking power.. full, zero, full, zero.. The torque from the engine that's being transferred repeatedly all the way across the drivetrain from wheel to wheel a dozen times a second, puts stress on everything. Brakes, rotors, axles, U joints, output shafts, and the differential itself. The left and right halves of the differential in the VW 02A transmission are held together with rivets which if forced to take this pounding too long will eventually fail. Neat huh?
Did I mention EDL uses the brakes? Perhaps "uses up the brakes" would be more appropriate.  It's really designed for emergency low traction situations and not drag racing or rallying or other long duration, low traction situations. Most EDL systems today only operate at speeds under 20mph.
So why use EDL if it's so bad?
Well, the torque transfer is only really bad if the input torque is high and the resistance at the side where it's being transferred to is high. Such as.. When you're spinning one tire on the pavement and the engine is cranking out maximum torque, which is then multiplied by the tranny's gear ratios, but an order of magnitude.   When it kicks that torque across from one side to the other, it finds that the other side (also on pavement) initially has lots of traction and therefore a lot of resistance which means that the drivetrain takes the brunt of the stress all at once. Worse case, is when the side that is slowed, slows enough to regain full traction, while the other side starts spinning. Then the EDL compensates and brakes that side.. and the whole process repeats back and forth many times.. Only reasonable solution.. take your foot off the gas.
On the other hand, if one tire is on snow, and the other is spinning on ice and the EDL has you accelerating slowly, the engine is producing little torque and if you tried to gas it hard, the torque transfer from the EDL meets with little resistance on the snow so the torque "escapes" as wheelspin on the snow side. If it's ice and pavement then yes, you want to avoid mashing on the gas, but pulling away smoothly shouldn't present a problem as each pulse of the ABS transfers into a small bit more acceleration of the car.

Should I worry when the EDL kicks in?. The ABS and diff can't transfer any more torque through the drivetrain than the engine supplies and the best case traction resistance allows. If traction is low on both sides, and power is high the traction is the limiting factor to how much drivetrain stress is induced. Otherwise, if one side had good traction on only one side, then just don't hammer the gas. If you're spinning the tires on dry pavement, expect TFS. Simple.
http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htmsursa:

Atat de clar explicat...EDS/EDL reduce viteza de rotatie atunci cand infigi piciorul prea mult in gaz pe suprafata cu gheata sau zapada alunecoasa...Adica te anunta ca esti prea brutal.

[A V A T A R]

Butonul este notat cu ESP in loc de ASR la masinile care vin echipate cu ESP.
Asr-ul este functie integrata in programul ESP.

Nu apreciez DELOC ca nu poti decupla ESP !

La Blue Flame si modelul 1U dotat cu ESP, daca apesi butonul, ESP este OFF, la fel si ASR ! Raman doar EDS/EDL + MBA + MSR ! Asa poti face drifturi

[Admin]

Ma intreb, oare EDL functioneaza si la mersul cu spatele? 


later edit


Daca cunosti putin engleza, uite aici un material extrem de interesant despre EDL:


EDL (often referred to as Electronic Traction Control.)
This system is used by most VW models today, many Audis and several other car models, and was first introduced for offroad use in the  Mercedes ML320 (AWD) and is undoubtably used by many others today.
It's what I call the poor man's LSD. (Some people dislike my characterization of it, as it can be very finely tuned, but it's still very cheap to implement and has some reliability and torque handling  problems.)
This is an electronically regulated speed sensitive system using the two independent ABS channels. Start with an open differential and go back to Example 3. You're holding onto the right output shaft while the input shaft turns. Now add a disc brake and rotor on the left input shaft.
Activate EDL system. When the computer senses a speed imbalance between left and right, (remember the left shaft is spinning at 2X and the right is not moving at all), it simply applies the brakes to the left side output shaft. The open differential immediately tries to balance the torque. You will feel it trying to turn the right side immediately. If it can grab the left harder than you're holding the right (which it most certainly can and will) then it would immediately transfer some rotation to the right output shaft and it will twist out of your hand. If you could hold onto the right side hard enough (weld it the side of a tractor trailer truck) , it would be forced to slip the left brake disc, or stall the engine. In practice, the engine will not stall because the maximum resistance is simply whatever it takes to move the mass of the car, or spin the other tire. So if one side is spinning and the other side has traction, then the EDL will brake the spinning side, and the torque transfers to the side with greater traction and either that side spins or the car moves.

Now, all my examples have been pretty extreme. The EDL doesn't actually stop anything. It simply slows it down until the speed difference is equalized, and it does this by pulsing the ABS channels maybe a dozen times a second. It switches off when the speed differential is low enough.

Also note, it does not try to prevent wheelspin! If both sides lose traction at the same time and spin at the same speed then EDL has no idea anything is wrong. A more advanced system measures the difference between the speeds of all 4 wheels during acceleration and assumes that anything spinning faster than the slowest rotating wheel is slipping (often referred to as ASL today). A cheap system will apply the brakes. An expensive system will reduce the throttle until the problem goes away.  BMWs and new VWs use this method to prevent wheelspin.
The problem with the way EDL works is that it's pretty harsh. The pulsing of the ABS isn't progressive. If the ABS is on, it applies full braking power followed by zero braking power.. full, zero, full, zero.. The torque from the engine that's being transferred repeatedly all the way across the drivetrain from wheel to wheel a dozen times a second, puts stress on everything. Brakes, rotors, axles, U joints, output shafts, and the differential itself. The left and right halves of the differential in the VW 02A transmission are held together with rivets which if forced to take this pounding too long will eventually fail. Neat huh?
Did I mention EDL uses the brakes? Perhaps "uses up the brakes" would be more appropriate.  It's really designed for emergency low traction situations and not drag racing or rallying or other long duration, low traction situations. Most EDL systems today only operate at speeds under 20mph.
So why use EDL if it's so bad?
Well, the torque transfer is only really bad if the input torque is high and the resistance at the side where it's being transferred to is high. Such as.. When you're spinning one tire on the pavement and the engine is cranking out maximum torque, which is then multiplied by the tranny's gear ratios, but an order of magnitude.   When it kicks that torque across from one side to the other, it finds that the other side (also on pavement) initially has lots of traction and therefore a lot of resistance which means that the drivetrain takes the brunt of the stress all at once. Worse case, is when the side that is slowed, slows enough to regain full traction, while the other side starts spinning. Then the EDL compensates and brakes that side.. and the whole process repeats back and forth many times.. Only reasonable solution.. take your foot off the gas.
On the other hand, if one tire is on snow, and the other is spinning on ice and the EDL has you accelerating slowly, the engine is producing little torque and if you tried to gas it hard, the torque transfer from the EDL meets with little resistance on the snow so the torque "escapes" as wheelspin on the snow side. If it's ice and pavement then yes, you want to avoid mashing on the gas, but pulling away smoothly shouldn't present a problem as each pulse of the ABS transfers into a small bit more acceleration of the car.

Should I worry when the EDL kicks in?. The ABS and diff can't transfer any more torque through the drivetrain than the engine supplies and the best case traction resistance allows. If traction is low on both sides, and power is high the traction is the limiting factor to how much drivetrain stress is induced. Otherwise, if one side had good traction on only one side, then just don't hammer the gas. If you're spinning the tires on dry pavement, expect TFS. Simple.
http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htmsursa:

[noobinhood]

Nope, la a mea - my2011 - primita spre sfarsitul lui august 2010 - butonul are marcajul cu masina si 2 liniute ondulate, acelasi marcaj care apare si pe bord. Nu scrie nicaieri ESP sau ASR.

Ce m-a deranjat pe mine la octavia mea (DSG7 deci si cu ESP si HHControl) a fost urmatoarea situatie:
Teren in panta, acoperit cu iarba (mai mult sau mai putin umeda). pe acest teren incercam sa urc cu spatele.
am prins cu roata din stanga fata o adancitura in pamant si aia a fost... patina in draci. a trebuit sa ies cu clasicul balans.

Conform manualului, trebuia sa intre EDL-ul si sa blocheze roata care patineaza si sa transmita mai multa putere la roata care nu patina...

Fiind o fire optimista, am presupus ca sistemul functioneaza doar la mersul inainte, desi e oarecum ilogic   

[Admin]

Butonul este notat cu ESP in loc de ASR la masinile care vin echipate cu ESP.
Asr-ul este functie integrata in programul ESP.

[Limit]

Scuze dar inca nu am primit masina.
Sunt in acea asteptare infernala.
Multumesc de informatie, e bine de stiut.

[Admin]

Limit, daca citeai manualul de utilizare, la pagina 165 (manualul nou) spune: "Sistemul ESP NU se poate dezactiva , prin apasarea tastei => fig.49. se dezactiveaza numai sistemul ASR, lampa de control (cu masinuta care aluneca) se aprinde."

[Admin]

Pentru cei mai nou veniti: o cautare pe video.google.com cu termenii "skoda safety systems" o sa va duca la cateva filmulete gen cel mai de jos unde este clar exemplificat comportamentul masinii cu si fara acele sisteme de siguranta.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8534277156649163439#

[Limit]

Pai si atunci butonul ala cu ESP care e in locul celui de ASR ce face?

[Admin]

ESP-ul nu se decupleaza din buton. Doar functia ASR este decuplabila.

[kata28x]

multumesc

[djketex]

 In bord ai acelasi martor pt ambele cazuri ( masinuta si cu 2 liniute serpuite) , iar pe buton , daca scrie ASR, atunci ai doar ASR , La EPS mi se pare ca e o masinuta si cu 2 liniute serpuite...

[Cheeta]

S-a mai zis probabil aici, dar e important de repetat: ABS-ul are calitatea de a mentine masina pe directia de deplasare in caz de franare brusca.
E foarte important. Colegii care au condus inainte masini fara ABS stiu bine lucrul asta, cand se blocheaza o roata in franare si masina "vireaza prin alunecare" singura dreapta sau stanga, pe lateral. In acest caz riscul de accident era mult mai mare, mai ales cu cei de pe contrasens, dar nici cu parapetii de pe marginea rapelor la munte nu e de joaca.
Drumuri bine si IN SIGURANTA va doresc!!!

[noobinhood]

nici-nici
 este semnul cu masina in derapaj si OFF

[kata28x]

va rog sa i-mi spuneti si mie cum este marcata dezativarea esp pe buton?
asr off sau esp off pentru o octavia fl 2011